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Author Topic: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?  (Read 88 times)

Offline Donald Baker

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What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« on: August 06, 2018, 07:35:20 PM »
Just curious.  If you want to defend a company on the list be my guest. 8)

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 10:05:37 PM »
My top two most disliked are Facebook and Google. 

Sidebar: I have never had a personal Facebook page.  When it first started getting popular sometime around 2007 or so, I thought it would end up like MySpace, or like Friendster (if you remember that site) and come crashing to an end after its popularity peaked.  I remember someone telling me back in 2009 that I was the only person he knew who didn't have a Facebook page  ;D.  To be honest, I haven't really ever felt like I was missing much, which indicates that Facebook doesn't really have a competitive advantage in the way that Google does (I would find it virtually impossible to do things online without a Google account). 

The only real problem I have experienced without a Facebook account is that some web sites have comment sections which are powered by Facebook, so you have to have an account to leave comments.  I was able to create a limited Facebook account for WesternCivForum, and so while it doesn't do everything a personal account can, it still (sometimes) lets me leave comments.

In my opinion, Facebook is not a company that has the ability to be a dominant force over the long term.  Because it is so flush with cash, though, it can afford to dominate certain areas of the social media market for the time being.  So while FB might hang around for a while, it will likely be driven off into the sunset slowly.

Offline skiguy

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 08:10:54 PM »
None of them. If I need to search something, I use google.  If I feel like going on Facebook then I will.  It is all my choice.

However, I will defend the much maligned Monsanto.  They have probably fed more people in the world than any company or person ever has.  Nothing wrong with GMO food or crops, IMO. If they can grow wheat or corn in a desert or cold region with genetically modified seed, then why does everyone think that is so bad?

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 08:36:06 PM »
None of them. If I need to search something, I use google.  If I feel like going on Facebook then I will.  It is all my choice.

However, I will defend the much maligned Monsanto.  They have probably fed more people in the world than any company or person ever has.  Nothing wrong with GMO food or crops, IMO. If they can grow wheat or corn in a desert or cold region with genetically modified seed, then why does everyone think that is so bad?

Welcome back ski!  I agree with you on all points.  I used to hate Amazon but after doing a presentation on corporate social responsibility, I now am aware of many of the good things they do for people that they don't have to do. They lose a lot of money trying to give back...perhaps trying to overcome the bad image some have for them as they gobble up the online retail market.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 08:41:31 PM by Donald Baker »

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 08:43:38 PM »
Oh I would like to add that I don't hate Facebook really.  I just dislike its slimy owner Zuckerberg.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 09:43:47 PM »
Welcome back ski!  I agree with you on all points.  I used to hate Amazon but after doing a presentation on corporate social responsibility, I now am aware of many of the good things they do for people that they don't have to do. They lose a lot of money trying to give back...perhaps trying to overcome the bad image some have for them as they gobble up the online retail market.

Yes - welcome Ski!

Now Donnie, I have a bone to pick with you about Amazon.  ;D  Over the years I have realized just how much I dislike corporate "social responsibility" initiatives and grants/donations to charities.  While this may seem strange, but hear me out:

  • First, it is the responsibilities of corporations to make a profit.  They are not in the charity business.  They are actually going against their function by giving away money to charities, even if these charities are otherwise deserving.
  • Second, it's little surprise that corporations use their donations/grants as public relations tools.  This tells us that it's at least in part about form over substance.  Are we supposed to think that corporations are good because they tell us they do good things?
  • Third, sadly, we live in an age where a lot of causes on the receiving end of grants are not universally considered to be good, but in fact engage in some pretty evil activities (Planned Parenthood comes to mind).  People in the corporation, however, either do not agree or do not care.  This poses a moral problem for consumers who then must face the fact that for every dollar they spend at this corporation, some of it will go to fund intrinsically evil activities.

For me, #3 is the one that annoys me like crazy.  So many corporate boards or HR departments have been infected by immorality, and they have they have pushed/bullied their way to adopting policies which further that immorality.  Think of how many rainbow flags you see corporations show during gay pride month.  It's at least in part a celebration of perversion and evil (and even of intolerance today) and it has nothing to do with the profit-generating activities of these corporations.  Why do it then?

And if you think that corporations have a responsibility to give to charities, I would counter by saying that corporations have a much better alternative: return money to shareholders in the form of dividends and let them decide to give to charity.  Let each individual give to their own causes instead of having some board of the corporation dictate who should receive it. 

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 10:09:08 PM »
Okay I had to think about this one for awhile before I responded. 

  • I do think corporations should strive to be good citizens as if they were individual people.  They are a neighbor to somebody afterall.
  • Companies are out to make money first and foremost, but investing in some social good will makes economic sense as a mechanism for promoting brand awareness.
  • There are other ways to practice CSR.  For example, Amazon recycles heat energy from its data centers and shares it with its neighbors in Seattle.  Amazon also has large wind farms that generate power back into the electric grid.  Sustainability initiatives can have a return on investment if done properly as well as help give back to the surrounding community.
  • Helping non profit agencies can help companies build cache and leverage with special interests within the government which obviously can pay significant dividends when potentially harmful legislation is being proposed.
  • Companies are owned by people who have desires to promote social good will and therefore are basically the instruments for which they can achieve personal philanthropic goals.
  • Some companies like Exxon really have no choice but to engage in CSR after suffering disastrous public relations events such as the Exxon Valdez oil spill.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 12:09:53 PM »
You made some good points.  I will agree with you that CSR does have an important part to play in the company's activities, such as in responsible use of its surroundings.  You said it well when you say that corporations are somebody's neighbor.  If a corporation's activities are going to negatively affect (or potentially affect) the people nearby (e.g. through environmental pollution, noise pollution, increased traffic, etc.), it has an obligation to those people and not weasel out of its responsibilities.  A corporation also duties to its employees.  So while profit is a significant goal of a corporation, it is not the exclusive goal.

With that said, I disagree with some of the other points.  You seem to be saying that "image is everything" and giving money to causes helps repair that.  This means that whoever dominates the cultural narrative gets to regulate the behavior of corporations; since leftists control our major cultural institutions and media, their voices are heard and their plans are implemented. 

Think about it - when a company supports gay marriage or Black Lives Matter, the national conversation will speak of that company with praise.  Meanwhile, a company like Chik-Fil-A, whose CEO personally opposes gay marriage, is treated like a villain.  Hobby Lobby is another example.  The "brand image" of these companies is very negative in some circles because leftists get to frame certain cultural perceptions and conservatives do not.

I can understand the desire of corporations to avoid bad press because it may hurt profits.  However, at some point corporations have to have some backbone and tell the media to jump in a lake and stick to its principles regardless of brand image.  The left does not get to dictate right and wrong, but they will continue to do so as long as we let them.

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 03:48:19 PM »
Upon your last point all I can say is companies have the freedom to support whatever causes they feel most aligned to.  Consumers have the final say in who they do business with.  As for me, I think companies who chose to associate with politically sensitive issues run the risk of alienating large segments of their potential market.  I think that makes no business sense at all.  I understand Chick Fil A's position and sympathize with their position, but is it really necessary for a fast food chair to stick it's neck out there? Again they have the freedom to do so, but there are consequences when they do.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 06:26:25 PM »
I don't think that it was the corporate Chick-Fil-A board that did anything; rather, it was the founder who made a statement about his personal belief and his separate foundation (not named Chick-Fil-A) promoted heterosexual marriage.  Protestors then connected this to his company.  The fact that people got outraged even by this tells us how very intolerant people on the left are.

And one other thing - you said "is it really necessary for a fast food chair to stick it's neck out there?"  This goes back to my earlier point that so many companies take the time to promote gay pride month, or they publicly celebrated when gay marriage was legalized in the U.S.  I remember that the company Kayak put a rainbow heart on its site when that happened, and since then I have not used their service (I wrote to them and told them as much). 

I guess what I am trying to say is that companies should stay neutral in the culture wars, but during the last several years they have taken a noticeably step in promoting left-wing causes.  I would rather they stop giving to all charities (and just let shareholders give to charities) than to have them giving to causes with which I not only disagree, but find inherently evil. 

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2018, 02:04:56 AM »
So, Donnie, are you still on board with this corporate activism stuff?

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2018, 01:12:53 PM »
Yes because it is still free speech and like Nike is beginning to see, can be very expensive.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 05:02:55 PM »
Ok. I guess I will have to just disagree with you on this one.  I think that companies have an obvious right to do it (exercise free speech), but the issue is whether they should do it, and not simply from an economic standpoint. 

It's about cultural decay through the politicization of everything.  Now, when buying shoes, we are forced to think about not only shoe style, comfort, durability, etc., but how we are enabling the brand to promote a disrespectful or false narrative that is used for political gain.  Even worse is when we have to decide whether to not patronize a brand or company or patronize them while knowing that a portion of the sale goes to support the company's grants toward abortion mills.  Should anyone have to face the choice between life and death while shopping at the mall?

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 09:46:48 PM »
The only solution is to not purchase goods from companies that have values not your own.  In Nike's case they openly say that their Kaepernick ad targets their core "urban" customer base so they arrogantly dismiss anyone else that is not "urban."  It's stupid business, and if I were a stakeholder, I would probably sue Nike for not acting in the best interests of the investors.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: What Company Do You Dislike The Most?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 05:27:03 PM »
Yes it's true that Nike is open about it.  More difficult are the companies that do things that are not typically in the news, such as corporate donations to certain groups. 


 

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