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Offline Donald Baker

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Replacement Theology
« on: March 02, 2010, 06:12:16 PM »
Somebody explain this to me.  I thought I had a handle on it, but now I'm not so sure.  Anyone care to give a go at this? :P
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Offline skiguy

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 07:17:12 PM »
The Church is the new Israel. I am stubbornly of the mindset that "no man comes to the Father except through me."  I do not recall that Jesus added "unless you're a Jew".   If you don't believe in Jesus, then you are not saved. Period.
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 07:33:52 PM »
Quote from: skiguy on March 03, 2010, 07:17:12 PM
The Church is the new Israel. I am stubbornly of the mindset that "no man comes to the Father except through me."  I do not recall that Jesus added "unless you're a Jew".   If you don't believe in Jesus, then you are not saved. Period.


So are you saying Israel is no longer in the equation theologically post Calvary? ???
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Offline skiguy

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 07:51:06 PM »
Maybe 144,000 are and those 144,000 are going to have the scales removed so they can believe iin the real Messiah.  It's all about believing in Christ.  If there are exceptions, then the New Testament is a lie.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 07:56:22 PM by skiguy »
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 08:22:44 PM »
Then what about Paul's statements in Romans where he says Israel will be grafted back into the Family of God alongside the Church?  How does this work?
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Offline skiguy

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 10:24:52 PM »
To be grafted in they'd have to be believers, would they not?

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart

Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 04:18:52 PM »
Quote from: skiguy on March 03, 2010, 10:24:52 PM
To be grafted in they'd have to be believers, would they not?

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart

Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith


You're confusing me.  Are you saying that God has written Israel out of the Family of God forever, or that Jews are Israel, because I see Israel as the nation, God's inheritance, and the Jews are just the occupants of the land.  You see what I mean?  Or am I way off base here?
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Offline skiguy

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2010, 09:38:32 AM »
Quote from: Donald Baker on March 04, 2010, 04:18:52 PM
You're confusing me.  Are you saying that God has written Israel out of the Family of God forever

No, I'm not saying that at all because I don't know the answer to that.  The current Israel as a nation generally does not accept Christ, so I can't say with any certainty that it fulfills prophecy, although I lean more and more that it does not as of yet.

All I'm saying is that Jesus is the way..the ONLY way, and if one doesn't believe in Him, then one doesn't have eternal life.  That's my beliefs about it, because this is my understanding of how salvation through Christ works.   I find it hard to grasp that there are exceptions to this one and only "rule" and that includes the nation of Israel and Jews.

IF Israel is going to be redeemed in the end times or before, it will be those who are believers in Christ.  All others will be judged accordingly because, again, that is how I understand the NT.   
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Offline Fit2BThaied

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 07:00:21 AM »
Gladly agree with skiguy.
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 05:31:50 PM »
So is Replacement Theology true or not?  Does the Church replace Israel?
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Offline Fit2BThaied

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 08:27:36 PM »
I'm not sure. I think it does. Jesus knew more than Calvin.
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 06:52:52 AM »
I remain unconvinced.  Israel and the Church are sisters of salvation.
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Offline Fit2BThaied

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 12:20:39 PM »
Does it matter unless you're trying to convert Jews?
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 04:11:07 PM »
Quote from: Fit2BThaied on April 06, 2010, 12:20:39 PM
Does it matter unless you're trying to convert Jews?


Yes it matters because God wished for Israel to be a light unto the nations.  If Israel couldn't fulfill this, then God must be disappointed, and God being disappointed bothers me.
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Offline Fit2BThaied

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 08:25:34 PM »
If Israel as a Jewish nation had been faithful to God, we didn't need Jesus. They failed. Replaced by the Church.
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Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Replacement Theology
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2010, 10:20:34 PM »
Quote from: Fit2BThaied on April 06, 2010, 08:25:34 PM
If Israel as a Jewish nation had been faithful to God, we didn't need Jesus. They failed. Replaced by the Church.


No, the Messiah was going to come anyway.  Israel will fulfill its destiny in the Last Days.
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