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Author Topic: Finding a Christian Spouse  (Read 14756 times)

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Offline Phidippides

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Finding a Christian Spouse
« on: September 11, 2007, 12:50:44 PM »
Heeding Donnie's concern that we've run out of things to talk about, I present...

what have people here learned or have to say about finding a Christian spouse?  Or perhaps even if you're not Christian, what is your standard?

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 02:50:57 PM »
No smoker, no drinkers. Biggest rule. I wont even consider if these are there.

College education a must.

I must be able to have intelligent discussion.

Liberal a must.

Must NOT be a strong theist.

Im glad my current fits all these perfectly!

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 03:36:50 PM »
So she can be a "weak" theist then and you'd accept her?  And are you saying that only women who tend to atheism are liberals?

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 03:52:20 PM »
If they were  a weak theist I may be able to deal with it.

And Im not saying that women who trend to atheism are liberals, although now that you mention it I wouldnt be surprised if there were a connection.

But I didnt mean to make any atheist/liberal connection other than Im looking for those characteristics in a partner.

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 07:13:21 PM »
Sorry, Phid.  I'm no help.  Tis best to stay single...especially at my age.  To be honest, I think this is because of selfishness on my part.  It's not like I don't have time, I just don't want to make the time or put in the effort required.  It wasn't until recently, because I've always felt "incomplete", but Ive been enjoying being single and can't even imagine someone eventually living here.  I thought that would change after the kids grew up and moved out, but it's actually gotten worse (or better..depends on your POV).
Just me and the dogs, and plans, and goals of career change or moving or travelling without worrying about anyone "getting in the way" of my decisions.

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 07:29:53 PM »
I can't help you either Phid.  I am commited to being single for life.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 08:33:48 PM »
Wow well I guess I have continued to sour the discussion here on CL with my latest question, eh?  ;)

Actually if I told Green my standards he would either laugh or be excessively confused....or both. 

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 08:41:24 PM »
Wow well I guess I have continued to sour the discussion here on CL with my latest question, eh?  ;)

Actually if I told Green my standards he would either laugh or be excessively confused....or both. 

Well phid, please do!

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 08:42:16 PM »
Sorry, Phid.  I'm no help.  Tis best to stay single...especially at my age.  To be honest, I think this is because of selfishness on my part.  It's not like I don't have time, I just don't want to make the time or put in the effort required.  It wasn't until recently, because I've always felt "incomplete", but Ive been enjoying being single and can't even imagine someone eventually living here.  I thought that would change after the kids grew up and moved out, but it's actually gotten worse (or better..depends on your POV).
Just me and the dogs, and plans, and goals of career change or moving or travelling without worrying about anyone "getting in the way" of my decisions.

I feel the EXACT same way, except for me, its kids. Im too selfish to have any. There is too much I want to do!

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 09:59:40 PM »
I feel the EXACT same way, except for me, its kids. Im too selfish to have any. There is too much I want to do!

Then what is the point of marriage for you?

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 10:06:28 PM »


Then what is the point of marriage for you?

There isnt. We dont really plan on getting married. However, since when is marriage about kids? I thought it was a personal commitment.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 10:14:26 PM »
Since when has it been about kids?  Since, like...forever.  I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but cohabitating couples have a much higher divorce rate than non-cohabitating ones.  From the perspective of a cohabitating couple I probably wouldn't see much use in marriage. 

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2007, 07:03:00 AM »
Since when has it been about kids?  Since, like...forever.  I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but cohabitating couples have a much higher divorce rate than non-cohabitating ones.  From the perspective of a cohabitating couple I probably wouldn't see much use in marriage. 

1) were not getting married, so the stats dont apply.
2) <anecdotal evidence> I know a few other couples w/o kids who have been together for decades!
3) Were not exactly your average couple either.
4) You post claims married, living together people have a higher divorce rate than non-living together married people?!?! That seems odd...  ;D

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2007, 11:01:21 AM »
I meant that couples that cohabitate before getting married are more likely to get divorced later on than couples who don't cohabitate before marriage.  Marriage also provides other benefits in regard to issues related to alcohol abuse, health of the mind, and happiness.

On a way unrelated story - and this is totally true - Green I "met" you in a dream last night and we were chatting at the table....I think it probably was after I read your post over at NJO about potentially meeting up with Donnie in KY.....but totally funny nonetheless.  You had one lazy/wandering eye in my dream....I have no idea why that was the case.  Funny how the unconscious works.

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2007, 11:42:42 AM »
I meant that couples that cohabitate before getting married are more likely to get divorced later on than couples who don't cohabitate before marriage.  Marriage also provides other benefits in regard to issues related to alcohol abuse, health of the mind, and happiness.
I tend to not believe think tank studies.

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On a way unrelated story - and this is totally true - Green I "met" you in a dream last night and we were chatting at the table....I think it probably was after I read your post over at NJO about potentially meeting up with Donnie in KY.....but totally funny nonetheless.  You had one lazy/wandering eye in my dream....I have no idea why that was the case.  Funny how the unconscious works.
LMFAO. Thats just creepy. I assure you I have neither a lazy or wandering eye.

Offline lao tzu

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2007, 12:01:30 PM »
I meant that couples that cohabitate before getting married are more likely to get divorced later on than couples who don't cohabitate before marriage.  Marriage also provides other benefits in regard to issues related to alcohol abuse, health of the mind, and happiness.

Unlike the greeny, I figure this is probably true.  It's also likely irrelevant.

It's been shown that those with higher IQs generally enjoy a statistical advantage in income.  So if only people would develop higher IQs they'd earn more!

What's wrong with that picture?

So what if people who cohabit before marriage are more likely to break up?  How is that different from noting that those who are more likely to break up tend to cohabit before marriage?  Would encouraging those who cohabit before marriage to wait until they're married to cohabit make them more like the other group?

I don't know.  Maybe it would.  But you can't pull that conclusion out of the studies we've got.  There are self-selection issues out the wazoo.

For myself, it could be I'll get married again someday.  I'm a widower still in love with my first.  It wouldn't be fair to ask someone else to fill those shoes until they've gathered a few more years of dust.

As ever, Jesse
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Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2007, 04:01:23 PM »
Well, I think people must have sex and live together before marriage. Its a must. Otherwise you get hitched and you can become quite disappointed. I think people should know what they are getting into before they jump in.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2007, 07:59:55 PM »
Well, I think people must have sex and live together before marriage. Its a must. Otherwise you get hitched and you can become quite disappointed. I think people should know what they are getting into before they jump in.

But the research doesn't support your feeling in this matter - at least in terms of evident happiness.  I think that people who live together and have sex together before marriage really wouldn't see much point in marriage aside from some technicality and a few legal benefits (along with some legal detriments as well).  If people don't see the "point" in marriage then we live in a society in decay.

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2007, 09:56:43 PM »


But the research doesn't support your feeling in this matter
You mean your think tank research?
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- at least in terms of evident happiness.
Evident happiness, ie: subjective data.
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I think that people who live together and have sex together before marriage really wouldn't see much point in marriage aside from some technicality and a few legal benefits (along with some legal detriments as well).
Really? It would seem then by default (according to what you seem to be implying) marriage is about sex and living together. Maybe thats why we have a 50% divorce rate.

However we see marriage as nothing but a piece of paper. A ceremony wont change anything between us. We wont suddenly love each other more just because the state now recognizes our relationship. The system is also over politicized and prejudice. We dont feel like lending credibility to a flawed system.

 
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If people don't see the "point" in marriage then we live in a society in decay.
Why? Since when does society need marriage?

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2007, 10:49:23 PM »
ou mean your think tank research?

That's hardly the only place.  I don't think it would be too hard to find other data showing the higher divorce rate of couples who cohabitate before marriage.

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Evident happiness, ie: subjective data.

Well we can gather that people who divorce do not have a "happy" marriage and couples who do stay together are "happier".

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Really? It would seem then by default (according to what you seem to be implying) marriage is about sex and living together.

I think that's a part of it, but obviously marriage is really about something on a higher level.

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However we see marriage as nothing but a piece of paper. A ceremony wont change anything between us. We wont suddenly love each other more just because the state now recognizes our relationship. The system is also over politicized and prejudice. We dont feel like lending credibility to a flawed system.

Can I use your quote the next time I get into an argument against someone who wants to legalize gay marriage?  ;D

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Why? Since when does society need marriage?

Oh, do we have things yet to teach you here!  It, along with the family, is only the foundation for each and every community, and all civilizations.  So society needs marriage like fish need water.  Now does the state need to recognize marriages as being legal?  No, seeing how marriage would go on regardless of whether the state recognized them.  Marriage is a natural institution based on love and is the foundation upon which new life is brought into the world, and how families grow.  It is all that and then some.

Offline Fit2BThaied

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2007, 12:57:56 AM »
I don't doubt that two virgins who marry each other, and then never cheat on their spouse, are less likely to  divorce.  But I know several cases (such as me, my sister, probably my late sister-in-law) where the divorce happened even though both spouses started the marriage as virgins.  The causes and affecting factors are too numerous to list, but it ain't as simple as it might appear. 

Christians who should marry, ought to marry another Christian, even if they're the same gender! ;D
I'm often wrong, but I'm not always wrong!

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2007, 03:24:28 PM »

That's hardly the only place.  I don't think it would be too hard to find other data showing the higher divorce rate of couples who cohabitate before marriage.
Remember, I suspend belief until there is evidence!


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I think that's a part of it, but obviously marriage is really about something on a higher level.
You think its a part of it. Using what evidence? But as for something higher? I agree! So cohabitation is irrelevant!


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Can I use your quote the next time I get into an argument against someone who wants to legalize gay marriage?  ;D
While that may be the case, its still obvious discrimination. We choose not to get married because we dont want to. Its not fair for those who want to be in the system to not have that ability.




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Oh, do we have things yet to teach you here!  It, along with the family, is only the foundation for each and every community, and all civilizations.  So society needs marriage like fish need water.  Now does the state need to recognize marriages as being legal?  No, seeing how marriage would go on regardless of whether the state recognized them.  Marriage is a natural institution based on love and is the foundation upon which new life is brought into the world, and how families grow.  It is all that and then some.
This seems more like an appeal to tradition than anything.

Offline Donald Baker

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2007, 05:06:57 PM »
Appeal to tradition, precedent, popularity whatever is relevant if it shows a trend based on common reason.  These types of arguments might not always be the best, but they have value.

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2007, 08:53:00 PM »
Appeal to tradition, precedent, popularity whatever is relevant if it shows a trend based on common reason.  These types of arguments might not always be the best, but they have value.

But thats the thing, saying something is good just BECAUSE its tradition its a bad argument. Thats what it appeared ski was doing.

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2007, 09:29:37 PM »
Something that has made civilization what it is (marriage between a man and a woman) is far more than just tradition.  It's life as it should and was meant to be.

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2007, 10:43:55 PM »
Something that has made civilization what it is (marriage between a man and a woman) is far more than just tradition.  It's life as it should and was meant to be.

How has marriage made life as it should? Marriage is a relatively recent concept in the human experience.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2007, 10:54:53 AM »
You think its a part of it. Using what evidence? But as for something higher? I agree! So cohabitation is irrelevant!

Well, I don't think it's irrelevant.  This page has some good information on it:  http://marriage.about.com/cs/cohabitation/a/livingtogether.htm


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While that may be the case, its still obvious discrimination. We choose not to get married because we dont want to. Its not fair for those who want to be in the system to not have that ability.

But you had previously said, "we see marriage as nothing but a piece of paper. A ceremony wont change anything between us. We wont suddenly love each other more just because the state now recognizes our relationship. The system is also over politicized and prejudice. We dont feel like lending credibility to a flawed system."  I realize that you are speaking of what you and your g/f think, but other people probably feel the same way.  But it is true that even gay people can get legally married, as long as it's one man and one woman.  But even for heterosexual couples there are regulations on marriage.  Is it not fair if a man cannot marry a dog?

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This seems more like an appeal to tradition than anything.

You are right about that...and the appeal is a good one!  You seem to have a modernist mentality echoing the French Revolution where remnants of the old should be struck down without even considering a) why you're striking them down (aside from the fact that it's part of the "old" system) and b) without really replacing with anything better.  Have you thought that maybe - just maybe - the institution of marriage is a good and beneficial thing?  It's not as if a committee got together one day and decided that marriage between a man and a woman was a good thing.   

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2007, 11:07:43 AM »
But it is true that even gay people can get legally married, as long as it's one man and one woman.  But even for heterosexual couples there are regulations on marriage.  Is it not fair if a man cannot marry a dog?
Red herring. The system is built for 2 people. Not more than 2 and not animals. Therefore your argument is moot.


Quote
You are right about that...and the appeal is a good one!  You seem to have a modernist mentality echoing the French Revolution where remnants of the old should be struck down without even considering a) why you're striking them down (aside from the fact that it's part of the "old" system) and b) without really replacing with anything better.  Have you thought that maybe - just maybe - the institution of marriage is a good and beneficial thing?  It's not as if a committee got together one day and decided that marriage between a man and a woman was a good thing.   
Actually i dont think it should be dissolved just because its "old" unlike you who want to keep it because its old. Its a prejudicial system, its over politicized and it screws up the tax system even more.

b) why does it NEED to be replaced?

As for it being a good thing, I just dont see it. And something from about.com doesnt count as evidence.

Offline Phidippides

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2007, 12:04:37 PM »
Red herring. The system is built for 2 people. Not more than 2 and not animals. Therefore your argument is moot.

Green, man, the argument is not moot.  You're right - the system is built for two people, one of which is a man and the other of which is a woman.  You're the one who's trying to deny the system by bringing in the "two men" or "two women" definition into marriage.  But if you're going to break it down in that regard, why not break it down in other regards...otherwise I'll just say that you're prejudiced against animals.

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Actually i dont think it should be dissolved just because its "old" unlike you who want to keep it because its old. Its a prejudicial system, its over politicized and it screws up the tax system even more.

b) why does it NEED to be replaced?

As for it being a good thing, I just dont see it. And something from about.com doesnt count as evidence.

Hey, I never said that just "because" of its age that it should remain.  I think you think I'd still be arguing for slavery merely because it's "old", which is entirely wrong.  Rather, you have to look at the origins of it.  Now I realize that what I am talking about is marriage in general whereas you seem to be arguing about marriage as a legal construct as recognized by the state.  If that's the case then I might agree with you that the state could abandon recognition of marriage.  In fact I think that this is a possible way things may end up going in the long run.

Oh, the About.com thing is meant for a starting point.  If you're going to doubt each source of mine then I can start challenging each and every source for your assertions....(marriage a "prejudicial system"???  I want PROOF!!  Marriage not built for a man and an animal??  Give me an impartial study which supports your claim!!  Etc. etc.)

Offline nygreenguy

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Re: Finding a Christian Spouse
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2007, 06:50:50 PM »


Green, man, the argument is not moot.  You're right - the system is built for two people, one of which is a man and the other of which is a woman.  You're the one who's trying to deny the system by bringing in the "two men" or "two women" definition into marriage.  But if you're going to break it down in that regard, why not break it down in other regards...otherwise I'll just say that you're prejudiced against animals.
The man/woman distinction is arbitrary and there would be no problems for allowing men/men or women/women.

there would be problems for any other changes. You are trying to claim a slippery slope, but you really need to just be a bit more rational.


 

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